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Edem

Comp Rework News - No reaper and no CW reqs

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Edem

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/c=MO2pdqriA9o/comp-cape---simplified-design---dev-blog?gsi=bmk0h9

 

13 May 2019 Dev Blogs

Comp Cape - Simplified Design - Dev Blog

Hello everyone,

The comp cape rework has been under discussion for some time now. We’ve been continuously talking with you and reading your pieces of feedback on various platforms such as Twitter, Reddit, Discord and the RuneScape Forums. We’ve been a bit quiet recently, because we’ve been having some bigger discussions amongst the Four Direction team and the wider Runescape team.

Over time, we’ve received various points of feedback regarding the complexity of the pitched design, and how players perceived the complexity. We sat down to discuss the reasons for this, and how we could tackle them in order to simplify the design. We want the new reworked system to feel familiar and comprehensible to new players and old ones, so in this dev blog we’re going to discuss our new simplified design pitch for the comp cape rework. This design is a much more cut-down version of the previous iteration, but still tackles all of the major points of feedback regarding comp.

The Design

We’re stripping away a lot of the previous design. As such, the completionist and trimmed completionist capes will remain as they currently are in game. We won’t be adding any new capes, new tiers of capes, new meta-achievements, or making anything into a "legacy cape". With the changes listed later, we hope to make the path to obtaining comp, and maintaining it, a much more enjoyable and satisfying journey - as well as opening up room for more achievements with new and old content, and the introduction of new capes in the future.

The “Reaper Crew” achievement will be removed as a requirement from the comp cape. Reaper has caused issues ever since its introduction, years after comp was initially brought into the game, frequently locking many players out of a cape they were otherwise always able to obtain. Hard bosses are intentionally designed to be harder than many players are comfortable with, which makes for a poor combination with the comp cape. Where most other content is normal easily accessible and solo-able, many various bosses introduce difficult, and forced group, gameplay. As well as this, reaper can sometimes limit developers from pushing difficulty on new high-end bosses as it can cause an uproar in the comp community - we’ve seen various instances of this in the past.

The “How Many Games?” Castle Wars achievement will be removed as a requirement from the trimmed comp cape. This achievement has also been controversial over the years - requiring a huge amount of time from the player. At one point it also had to have its requirement reduced, yet it still hasn’t improved since. It’s wildly out of sync with other achievements on the trimmed comp cape and quite frankly needs to be addressed. If we were releasing Castle Wars today, we would never put an achievement like this on it.

The comp cape stats will be taken off of the cape and added as a passive bonus to the “Reaper Crew” achievement instead. (This partially compensates for it being removed from comp, and seems like the most logical place to put them.) As with the previous design, these passive stats will be on the player at all times. You can combine your passive stats with any cape, which means that capes matter again, and frees us up to add better capes as rewards and drops in the future. The reason for this change is that the need for best in slot stats pushed a lot of players to pursue the comp cape when they actually had no interest in completionism. Moving the stats allows the comp cape to have more demanding requirements added to it in future.

Utility benefits that are currently tied to the cape item, such as teleports, will be changed to permanent unlocks on the player rather than the cape. These, alongside the stats, currently make the comp cape feel as a mandatory item to have at all times. Moving these elsewhere, for example making the Ava’s alerter ammo collection effect a permanent passive unlock from completing the “Do No Evil” quest, yet again allows for new and more powerful capes to be introduced. Teleports like Max Guild and Kandarin monastery will be made unlockable from their respective pieces of content, and activatable at all times through some form of interface or right click option.

The following benefits which currently are inherited by the comp cape from other capes, will be decoupled from the comp cape and become accessible in game through other means. As specified above, these will become permanent effects, toggleable, or activate-able depending on the benefit.

  • From the max cape/99 skillcapes
  • Max Guild teleport
  • The ability to add 3 skillcape perks to your ‘cape slot’
  • From the Ardougne cloak 4
  • Kandarin monastery teleport
  • Manor farm teleport
  • Summoning restore (once per day)
  • All task rewards (from Ardougne tasks) that require the cape to be worn
  • From Ava’s alerter
  • The arrow retrieval effect
  • From the bonesack (e)
  • Skeletal horror teleport
  • From Jerrod’s cape
  • Various thieving bonuses and effects
  • From the spirit cape
  • 20% less summoning special energy when using summoning scrolls

The only benefit not included here from the current comp cape is the fire/kiln cape effect which allows for bonus damage when fighting Ice Strykewyrms as we’d like to return this to being a cape-exclusive bonus.

Clearer definitions will be written for future comp and trim comp achievements. Since we are no longer redefining the capes, this shouldn’t be too different from what it is now. Moving forward, players and devs will have a clearer understanding of what should and shouldn’t be required for either cape. This way, with new content, players can know what to expect from new comp requirements and the requirements for comp and trim can be much more coherent.

With the previous changes implemented, future additions to the comp capes in terms of achievements should not cause any further controversy. As such, we plan to be more active in adding comp/trim comp related achievements with new content in the future.

Likewise, any existing content could have achievements created and added to the comp/trim comp capes. However, initial polling suggested that players don’t want a huge batch of requirements to be added all at once, so this should be something that is done over time and not part of this rework.

So to sum up, the new design is to make the smallest changes we can to the comp and trim comp capes while still fixing all of the major complaints and issues. This is a major change based on the feedback we've received, and of course we still want to hear your thoughts. You can get in touch with us via our forums, reddit and discord.

Linking

You can discuss the blog here:

Forums

Reddit

Discord

Thanks,

The Four Direction Team

 

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Beric

I'd greatly prefer if they'd leave stuff alone and just stop being weenies about adding new Comp/Trim requirements, but if they insist on a rework I'd rather this than the mess of their last proposed design. 

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thegreatwha

RIP to the person who just got Trim after finishing their Castle Wars achievement. I'm lookin' at you @Wolf Eyes, did you ever complete this task? If not, then how closes were you to finishing it?

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Cam L

Whiny bitches get their particles, woo

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AmusedDragon

I see their plan.

 

They introduced a totally insane and giant rework to get most people to complain... and then they reverted back to just removing the 2 reqs people bitched about most in the last second. In comparison this is a far better solution, but they had to dangle tons of moronic ideas in front of us first.

 

:sly: 

 

I'm unhappy with reaper crew being removed. C wars was a terrible requirement for trim, and I'm happy it's gone. No one should have to spend 100s of hours sitting in minigames afking.

 

I just hope that going forward that every update to the game comes with new requirements. They should also go back and retroactively add reqs for stuff released in the past couple of years. I've legit never done safecracking and I'm comped. How does that make sense?

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CosMoee
2 hours ago, Edem said:

The following benefits which currently are inherited by the comp cape from other capes, will be decoupled from the comp cape and become accessible in game through other means. As specified above, these will become permanent effects, toggleable, or activate-able depending on the benefit.

:pipe: I really enjoy this idea. 

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Wolf Eyes

Hell yeah!!! I don’t have to do castle wars!!! :lol:

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Wolf Eyes
1 hour ago, thegreatwha said:

RIP to the person who just got Trim after finishing their Castle Wars achievement. I'm lookin' at you @Wolf Eyes, did you ever complete this task? If not, then how closes were you to finishing it?

I was too lazy to do castle wars. Only have reaper points left to do. 

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Catbutts

Cant wait for new BIS cape switches for my already negative amount of inventory space

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Edem
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AmusedDragon said:

I see their plan.

 

They introduced a totally insane and giant rework to get most people to complain... and then they reverted back to just removing the 2 reqs people bitched about most in the last second. In comparison this is a far better solution, but they had to dangle tons of moronic ideas in front of us first.

 

:sly: 

 

I'm unhappy with reaper crew being removed. C wars was a terrible requirement for trim, and I'm happy it's gone. No one should have to spend 100s of hours sitting in minigames afking.

 

I just hope that going forward that every update to the game comes with new requirements. They should also go back and retroactively add reqs for stuff released in the past couple of years. I've legit never done safecracking and I'm comped. How does that make sense?

People who do reaper get rewarded with comp cape stats. So there is a reason to do it. They said they will retroactively add comp reqs. 

 

Overall I think this is the best compromise they could have come up with.

 

The comp cape stats will be taken off of the cape and added as a passive bonus to the “Reaper Crew” achievement instead

Edited by Edem

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Sir Berry
1 hour ago, Edem said:

People who do reaper get rewarded with comp cape stats. So there is a reason to do it. They said they will retroactively add comp reqs. 

 

Overall I think this is the best compromise they could have come up with.

 

The comp cape stats will be taken off of the cape and added as a passive bonus to the “Reaper Crew” achievement instead

It seems like making bis stats obtainable by unlocking reaper crew was a good idea. I am fine with this as a compromise for pvmers who don't want to comp.

 

However, in my mind your not comped unless you kill all the bosses. This is what most people want, so they don't have to do the work.

 

My compromise (which I dont really want) for nonpvmers would be jagex create a story mode for the harder team bosses such as solak, raids, and vorago, while keeping reaper as a comp req.

 

They could even make tiers of story mode/practice mode. 10% -> 50% -> 100%, no loot, but let's you practice.

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imGONEja
1 hour ago, Edem said:

People who do reaper get rewarded with comp cape stats. So there is a reason to do it.

Now here's something I haven't seen an answer to: So you complete Reaper Crew and get the Comp Cape Stats Buff. The buff is on your character, right? So does that mean it stacks with whatever other cape you happen to be wearing? Or just buff your capes to comp stats? Because the former could lead to a fair amount of power creep, and the latter would effectively kill the need to wear a cape at all.

 

If it does stack, this actually buffs the 'comp bonus' quite a bit, always carrying around those buffs with you. For example, the Kiln Capes start with a +31 style bonus, now throw on an additional +43 in that style, plus some life point, prayer, and armour bonuses to go with it. You effectively have a +74 style bonus and then some from one equipment slot, as you're basically wearing 2 capes at once. I can't say exactly how much of a power creep this would actually amount to if that much at all, but I don't think it would be negligible either.

 

I mean, people pay mils extra for tectonic, ornamental kits, and etc. that add a couple extra bonus points. This gives half of the player base so much extra for barely anything at all. 

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Sir Berry
9 minutes ago, imGONEja said:

Now here's something I haven't seen an answer to: So you complete Reaper Crew and get the Comp Cape Stats Buff. The buff is on your character, right? So does that mean it stacks with whatever other cape you happen to be wearing? Or just buff your capes to comp stats? Because the former could lead to a fair amount of power creep, and the latter would effectively kill the need to wear a cape at all.

 

If it does stack, this actually buffs the 'comp bonus' quite a bit, always carrying around those buffs with you. For example, the Kiln Capes start with a +31 style bonus, now throw on an additional +43 in that style, plus some life point, prayer, and armour bonuses to go with it. You effectively have a +74 style bonus and then some from one equipment slot, as you're basically wearing 2 capes at once. I can't say exactly how much of a power creep this would actually amount to if that much at all, but I don't think it would be negligible either.

 

I mean, people pay mils extra for tectonic, ornamental kits, and etc. that add a couple extra bonus points. This gives half of the player base so much extra for barely anything at all. 

I would think they don't stack, but its not clear.

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Edem
Posted (edited)

I think their intention is for it to stack which is the better idea imo. You should be rewarded for reaper like you were with comp. I would assume they will adjust the "stack" levels so it is more like 1.5 capes instead of 2. The way they worded it I think you would have comp cape stats even if you were naked.

Edited by Edem

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Sir Berry
2 minutes ago, Edem said:

I think their intention is for it to stack

Wowzers... not sure that's a good idea.

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imGONEja
1 hour ago, Edem said:

The way they worded it I think you would have comp cape stats even if you were naked.

That's how I interpreted it as well, which is what got me thinking about this. 

 

Another way it could be done which I didn't think about before is adding the marginal increases in stats over the next best cape to the player. 

 

Going back to the Kiln Capes example, +31 vs +43, the player would receive a +12 buff to all styles at all times. This could potentially be done for each of the bonus of the cape but personally, I think those are inconsequential enough that even given to the player at full strength it wouldn't make that big of an impact. (Not to mention, if it was done to every stat, it would actually remove all the other bonus of the cape. The superior reefwalkers cape shares the armour and life point bonuses with the current comp cape, as does the prayer bonus with the dragon rider cape, so they would effectively be zeroed out.) 

 

I think a permanent +12 style bonus, +6 prayer, 65 armour, and 300 lifepoint buff would be a decent middle ground. 

 

In other news, I've spent too much time and effort thinking about this. But I suppose that makes up for the fact that Jagex clearly hasn't.  :lol:

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Bluee Iris
On 5/13/2019 at 10:10 AM, Edem said:

We’re stripping away a lot of the previous design. As such, the completionist and trimmed completionist capes will remain as they currently are in game. We won’t be adding any new capes, new tiers of capes, new meta-achievements, or making anything into a "legacy cape". 

I'm so glad they decided not to change the design of the cape. I like my particles. :ani:

 

On 5/13/2019 at 10:10 AM, Edem said:

With the changes listed later, we hope to make the path to obtaining comp, and maintaining it, a much more enjoyable and satisfying journey - as well as opening up room for more achievements with new and old content.

These changes seem way better. 

---

 

A bit bummed they are removing Reaper from comp. That's what really got me motivated for comp. :c 

 

Hurraaayyy for no castle wars requirement thoughhhhhhh! :D 

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Beric
10 hours ago, Sir Berry said:

My compromise (which I dont really want) for nonpvmers would be jagex create a story mode for the harder team bosses such as solak, raids, and vorago, while keeping reaper as a comp req.

This would have been a nice simple compromise. See and experience the fight, learn any attached lore, get the music track. 

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Kris_Kronkle
11 hours ago, Sir Berry said:

It seems like making bis stats obtainable by unlocking reaper crew was a good idea. I am fine with this as a compromise for pvmers who don't want to comp.

 

However, in my mind your not comped unless you kill all the bosses. This is what most people want, so they don't have to do the work.

 

My compromise (which I dont really want) for nonpvmers would be jagex create a story mode for the harder team bosses such as solak, raids, and vorago, while keeping reaper as a comp req.

 

They could even make tiers of story mode/practice mode. 10% -> 50% -> 100%, no loot, but let's you practice.

people would still bitch about not being able to comp on their immersed farmer role play hcim account cause they have to attempt the bosses (and level up slayer for magister). getting rid of castle wars req is fine. sitting afk in a dead mini game for hours isn't an accomplishment but killing all the bosses is. people who want reaper off comp are people who dont  want to actually complete the game imo and i would not want any compromise

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Sir Berry
8 hours ago, Kris_Kronkle said:

people would still bitch about not being able to comp on their immersed farmer role play hcim account cause they have to attempt the bosses (and level up slayer for magister). getting rid of castle wars req is fine. sitting afk in a dead mini game for hours isn't an accomplishment but killing all the bosses is. people who want reaper off comp are people who dont  want to actually complete the game imo and i would not want any compromise

I totally agree with you. Jagex seems hell bent on changing something. Something like this seemed better than completely removing reaper, which is crazy.

 

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