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Michelle Obama's speech


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I see a VERY appreciable difference between Obama and Romney.

That's fine. I don't, and frankly, I'd probably enjoy watching you articulate what you see.

And will be dead before the 2 party system in America is.

Hence my positions.

You've apparently missed my entire point. I wasn't saying that my voting for Gary Johnson will somehow usher in the rise of the Libertarian Party. However, if Gary Johnson gets a high enough percentage of the popular vote, say, 10%, I think both parties will take notice. The Democratic Party might take its claimed appreciation of civil liberties seriously while the Republican Party might focus more on bringing the rising libertarian wing into the fold as opposed to catering to the dying social conservatives.

I have serious doubts it will.

It will be swallowed up by one of the respective parties the same way the "Tea" party was. If you want significant change in the Republican party pray for diabetes and old age to kill off the ~25% of Americans who believe they will see the Rapture in their lifetimes. Then maybe they'll go back to focusing on the meaningful things.

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I don't know nor do I care for the history of the bipartisan system, but I think abolishing the party platform would be the best thing this country could do, aside from eliminating the influence of lobbyists and SIGs. It disgusts me how much politics dictate government.

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I have serious doubts it will.

It will be swallowed up by one of the respective parties the same way the "Tea" party was. If you want significant change in the Republican party pray for diabetes and old age to kill off the ~25% of Americans who believe they will see the Rapture in their lifetimes. Then maybe they'll go back to focusing on the meaningful things.

You haven't been paying attention to the Republican party, apparently. The Tea Party helped change the dialog in the Republican party. Tea Party candidates who were elected helped keep Republicans in check when it came to raising the debt ceiling, etc. As quickly as they became part of the "establishment", they still did quite a bit. Libertarians can do the same thing, except we don't play quite as nicely as the Tea Partiers did. They were Republicans who got pissed off. It was easy to get them back in the fold. We're not Republicans. If you want us to get on board, you're going to have to offer us far more than you offered them, because we're used to not identifying with Republicans.

Frankly, my "ideal" this election, if I cared enough to have one, would be for Republicans to take the Senate, keep the House, and for Obama to win re-election because Gary Johnson got 15% of the popular vote. That way, nothing would get done for the next four years and the Republicans might pay a little more attention to us next cycle.

Edited by Joshjrn
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Do you think 15% is attainable?

No. The media (from what I know) doesn't mention any candidates anymore besides Romney and Obama. Besides, less than 60 days before the election. 60 days to win over 15% of the voting populace? Nah. Gary may have New Mexico in his pocket, from being governor and all, but there's no way the average American household will even know about Gary Johnson so close to the election.

That's just my perspective on it. I'd like to know what you think.

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Do you think 15% is attainable?

This cycle? No. He's not a national name, so when you combine the media blackout with the fact that the debates are rigged to intentionally exclude 3rd party candidates, he just won't get enough exposure. However, I think 10% this cycle is a good, somewhat attainable goal. He's currently polling at about 6%.

Edited by Joshjrn
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Interesting. I took the quiz on http://www.isidewith.com and I agreed 92% with Jill Stein. I haven't heard of her, but I'm thinking that since I sided really strongly with environmental issues and not much else persuaded my results. I agreed 89% with Obama, 77% with Rocky Anderson, 73% with Johnson, 15% with Romney (lol) and 5% with Virgil Goode (wtf).

I was perusing Gary Johnson's AMA on Reddit, and agreed with him on pretty much every stance he had. Strongly considering voting for him.

Edited by Sir Jake 14
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Interesting. I took the quiz on http://www.isidewith.com and I agreed 92% with Jill Stein. I haven't heard of her, but I'm thinking that since I sided really strongly with environmental issues and not much else persuaded my results. I agreed 89% with Obama, 77% with Rocky Anderson, 73% with Johnson, 15% with Romney (lol) and 5% with Virgil Goode (wtf).

I was perusing Gary Johnson's AMA on Reddit, and agreed with him on pretty much every stance he had. Strongly considering voting for him.

I actually took this test and it said I was Libertarian. It also said that I agreed most with Jill Stein.

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Candidates you side with...

91%

Gary Johnson

on domestic policy, economic, foreign policy, healthcare, environmental, and immigration issues

85%

Mitt Romney

on economic, domestic policy, science, social, healthcare, environmental, and immigration issues

68%

Virgil Goode

on domestic policy, foreign policy, environmental, and immigration issues

37%

Barack Obama

on environmental and immigration issues

17%

Jill Stein

no major issues

12%

Rocky Anderson

no major issues

51%

Pennsylvania Voters

on economic, domestic policy, foreign policy, social, immigration, and environmental issues.

51%

American Voters

on economic, domestic policy, social, immigration, and environmental issues.

---

I believe we've made a breakthrough here... all jokes aside I looked up this Johnson fellow and i'm not as confident in him as the numbers from the site would lead me to believe.

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I'm actually not terribly fond of that particular quiz. It bases the percentages on what the parties claim they want to do as opposed to what they have done/actually will do, so support for the two parties actually ends up higher than it should be. I also think it sometimes botches what is or is not a "similar" answer. That said, I find it interesting how high libertarian numbers are for you guys.

ETA: Also, if you don't take the time to sort through the "other stances" menu on every question, you'll end up with skewed results. For example, I just took the test (quickly for the sake of doing what I'm about to discuss) and then started picking through the individual question results. This was one of the first I noticed:

Immigration Healthcare

Most important to me

Should illegal immigrants be given access to government-subsidized healthcare?

You and Romney: No

Obama's similar answer: No, but their children should have access

Goode's similar answer: No, deport illegal immigrants seeking healthcare

Johnson's similar answer: No, the government should not subsidize healthcare

According to the test, I line up with Romney. However, in reality, I line up with Johnson. I simply didn't go through the other stances menu because it didn't occur to me that I needed to. Something to pay attention to.

Edited by Joshjrn
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For full disclosure, I ran through again (looking at every menu option) and came out with:

Gary Johnson: 98%

Virgil Goode: 65%

Mitt Romney: 41%

Barack Obama: 0%

However, in reality, I think my Romney number should be around 30% and my Obama number around 25%. As an example of my Obama number being higher, when asked about gay marriage, I said that the government should completely get out of the area of marriage, allowing anyone to get married. This was deemed "unlike" Obama's stance of being pro gay marriage.

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