Illegal Immigrants

[Ph33r3d_1]

They're here in the millions. Most estimates indicate that about 1 in 20 US workers is in the country without documentation. They cost money. Most are paid under the table and thus don't pay income taxes. They are eligible to draw from Social Security, but don't pay into it. They don't get insurance, so taxpayers pay their medical bills. They aren't going to leave on their own free will. So what is to be done with them?

Arizona and Alabama have passed controversial bills allowing local police to detain anyone they suspect is in the country illegally.

Other states have passed bills allowing them to pay in-state college tuition even though they aren't citizens.

At one time, I was a hard-nosed Republican who toed the line. It's either legal, or it ain't. If it ain't, it's gotta go. However, I've softened over the years and this issue has become personal to me. I have several friends and acquaintances who work extraordinarily hard and are generous among their own communities. They don't speak a lick of English and *probably* aren't supposed to be here. So, they're here working, providing services we enjoy, and sending money home to their families... and all of a sudden, we want to deport them all?

I've traveled outside the US, and have seen the conditions they flee. I cannot stomach the idea of rounding them up sending them all back to that squalor. Besides, what diabolical kind of hypocrites does that make us? We are, after all, a nation entirely made up of immigrants. Even the Native Americans immigrated here.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This is emblazoned on the Statue of Liberty.

I see our tolerance of immigrants as a matter of national pride. Yeah, they're expensive. They take jobs that true citizens may or may not have wanted. But they work hard and have a sense of wisdom that many Americans seem to have lost. I believe that we need these people to show us what gratitude and austerity truly are. Thus, they should be granted amnesty for their crime of crossing the border in an efficient manner and trying to earn a decent living.

TL;DR: Grant illegal immigrants amnesty. Agree or disagree? Go!

[John Kleppe]

Illegal

No. Get them to come here legally and sure.

Also, if you're going to use the we all immigrated here I'll go ahead and say we are all from the middle of the jungles in Africa where our species first came into existence.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Aeterna
Merged double post

[Doc]

Yeah, they're expensive. They take jobs that true citizens may or may not have wanted. But they work hard and have a sense of wisdom that many Americans seem to have lost.

They're expensive, you just admitted it.

I've been to 5 work locations in the past week to look for a job to do this summer while I am out of school. All said no. They can hire a group of 7 mexican immigrants, whether they're illegal or legal I do not know, because I know somebody will accuse me of racism if I say illegal, to do the work but not me, a teenager looking for a low-paying physical job.

What's your proof that they work hard? When I went to school in inner-city Charlotte I saw work crews of Mexicans (I assume you're talking about Mexican immigrants) with four guys standing around and two working.

What wisdom? Taco Bells are already all across the U.S.

My father worked in the tree cutting business for 25 years. He finally quit when his boss told him to learn Spanish to speak to all of the illegal immigrants, or "undocumented workers" (according to Obama, they're supposed to be called undocumented workers) he had teach the work of cutting trees.

Oh, and I love how you forget to mention ANYTHING about crime, gangs, drugs, anything of that sort that illegal immigrants also bring to this great country. I sense a little bias in your topic.

[Tidin L]

Privatize land, problem solved.

[Aeterna]

Privatize land, problem solved.

until the government seizes your land because you didn't pay one bill not even relevant to the ownership of your land

I've heard they're notorious for that

[Joshjrn]

Privatize land, problem solved.

until the government seizes your land because you didn't pay one bill not even relevant to the ownership of your land

I've heard they're notorious for that

I'm not sure that you understand what he's talking about. Then again, you don't seem to understand what you are talking about, either

[Cordeiro]

Immigrants do sometimes pay taxes, and they don't collect social security. You have to have a ssn to collect social security, and actually it's been estimated that one of the primary reasons why social security hasn't entirely hit the red yet is because of undocumented workers pay into it.

[Ph33r3d_1]

Yeah, they're expensive. They take jobs that true citizens may or may not have wanted. But they work hard and have a sense of wisdom that many Americans seem to have lost.

They're expensive, you just admitted it.

So are infants, old people, and prisoners.

I've been to 5 work locations in the past week to look for a job to do this summer while I am out of school. All said no. They can hire a group of 7 mexican immigrants, whether they're illegal or legal I do not know, because I know somebody will accuse me of racism if I say illegal, to do the work but not me, a teenager looking for a low-paying physical job.

Are you willing to learn the skills necessary to make yourself a more attractive employee? Zero-skilled jobs will always be filled by the lowest bidders, whether it's construction or answering phones in a telebank.

Off-topic: this phenomenon is also partially a result of minimum wage laws.

What's your proof that they work hard? When I went to school in inner-city Charlotte I saw work crews of Mexicans (I assume you're talking about Mexican immigrants) with four guys standing around and two working.

Personal experience. I'm referring to all illegal immigrants, be they Hispanic, Russian, Chinese, Arab, or anything else.

What wisdom? Taco Bells are already all across the U.S.

That personal gain may require immense personal sacrifice.

My father worked in the tree cutting business for 25 years. He finally quit when his boss told him to learn Spanish to speak to all of the illegal immigrants, or "undocumented workers" (according to Obama, they're supposed to be called undocumented workers) he had teach the work of cutting trees.

So he quit, not because the pay or conditions sucked, but because he needed to learn a new skill? It must be nice to have that option.

In 50 years, the language of international business will probably be Chinese, not English. I hope those of you in college are preparing for a changing world.

Oh, and I love how you forget to mention ANYTHING about crime, gangs, drugs, anything of that sort that illegal immigrants also bring to this great country.

Those are all completely valid points. What I wonder - I don't know if this research has been done or not - is how the per capita crime rate for illegal immigrants compares to that of citizen people groups: white, black, hispanic, inner city, suburb, etc.

I sense a little bias in your topic.

True. No one is completely void of bias - we all have our own experiences that jade our worldview and perception of events.

[Ph33r3d_1]

Illegal

No. Get them to come here legally and sure.

Also, if you're going to use the we all immigrated here I'll go ahead and say we are all from the middle of the jungles in Africa where our species first came into existence.

But not everyone believes in evolution

Actually, the "we're all immigrants" argument is fairly amateurish. I prefer this - have you ever broken the speed limit or not come to a complete stop at a stop sign and not been caught?

You have? Me too.

Have you ever gone to your local clerk's office and paid the fine for the ticket that you didn't get?

No? Me neither.

So if these minor crimes that didn't hurt anyone are okay, why is it not okay for a teenager to jump across the border and work as a dishwasher 60 hours a week, and send the majority of his paychecks back to his mother and sisters in Guatemala?

[Doc]

Yeah, they're expensive. They take jobs that true citizens may or may not have wanted. But they work hard and have a sense of wisdom that many Americans seem to have lost.

They're expensive, you just admitted it.

So are infants, old people, and prisoners.

I've been to 5 work locations in the past week to look for a job to do this summer while I am out of school. All said no. They can hire a group of 7 mexican immigrants, whether they're illegal or legal I do not know, because I know somebody will accuse me of racism if I say illegal, to do the work but not me, a teenager looking for a low-paying physical job.

Are you willing to learn the skills necessary to make yourself a more attractive employee? Zero-skilled jobs will always be filled by the lowest bidders, whether it's construction or answering phones in a telebank.

Off-topic: this phenomenon is also partially a result of minimum wage laws.

What's your proof that they work hard? When I went to school in inner-city Charlotte I saw work crews of Mexicans (I assume you're talking about Mexican immigrants) with four guys standing around and two working.

Personal experience. I'm referring to all illegal immigrants, be they Hispanic, Russian, Chinese, Arab, or anything else.

What wisdom? Taco Bells are already all across the U.S.

That personal gain may require immense personal sacrifice.

My father worked in the tree cutting business for 25 years. He finally quit when his boss told him to learn Spanish to speak to all of the illegal immigrants, or "undocumented workers" (according to Obama, they're supposed to be called undocumented workers) he had teach the work of cutting trees.

So he quit, not because the pay or conditions sucked, but because he needed to learn a new skill? It must be nice to have that option.

In 50 years, the language of international business will probably be Chinese, not English. I hope those of you in college are preparing for a changing world.

Oh, and I love how you forget to mention ANYTHING about crime, gangs, drugs, anything of that sort that illegal immigrants also bring to this great country.

Those are all completely valid points. What I wonder - I don't know if this research has been done or not - is how the per capita crime rate for illegal immigrants compares to that of citizen people groups: white, black, hispanic, inner city, suburb, etc.

I sense a little bias in your topic.

True. No one is completely void of bias - we all have our own experiences that jade our worldview and perception of events.

So are infants, old people, and prisoners.

But they're legal in the U.S.

Those are all completely valid points. What I wonder - I don't know if this research has been done or not - is how the per capita crime rate for illegal immigrants compares to that of citizen people groups: white, black, hispanic, inner city, suburb, etc.

Any crime from an illegal immigrant is too much.

So he quit, not because the pay or conditions sucked, but because he needed to learn a new skill? It must be nice to have that option.

Why should he have to learn Spanish to do HIS job in a country that speaks English?

Are you willing to learn the skills necessary to make yourself a more attractive employee? Zero-skilled jobs will always be filled by the lowest bidders, whether it's construction or answering phones in a telebank.

I am willing to learn these skills. Do you think illegal immigrants come to this country already knowing how to do whatever job it is? I doubt it.

Personal experience. I'm referring to all illegal immigrants, be they Hispanic, Russian, Chinese, Arab, or anything else.

The majority are Hispanic, correct? And last time I checked, Hispanic illegal immigrants did the crime I stated in my last post. Can't recall the last time I even HEARD of a Russian or Chinese illegal immigrant, much less, them doing ANY crime whatsoever.

How about this: the illegal immigrants from all countries go back to their home country, and instead of coming to America to exploit its opportunities, they fix their own country. I call running away from a problem, not solving it, laziness.

Oh, and you seem to be another bleeding-heart Liberal. Am I correct?

Edited June 8, 2011 by Doc is Death

[Doc]

So if these minor crimes that didn't hurt anyone are okay, why is it not okay for a teenager to jump across the border and work as a dishwasher 60 hours a week, and send the majority of his paychecks back to his mother and sisters in Guatemala?

Why can't his mother and sisters get off their fat (and probaly pregnant) asses and work?

If you can't afford to feed yourself, don't have any sex, which may lead to kids. It's really, that fucking simple.

I'm just wondering when the entirety of Africa is going to figure that out.

[Mike]

Sure is herpity derpity librul up in here

[Aeterna]

Privatize land, problem solved.

until the government seizes your land because you didn't pay one bill not even relevant to the ownership of your land

I've heard they're notorious for that

I'm not sure that you understand what he's talking about. Then again, you don't seem to understand what you are talking about, either

Oh but I do

[Jake]

Holy jesus you are one ignorant mother fucker, Doc

[Jake]

Privatize land, problem solved.

until the government seizes your land because you didn't pay one bill not even relevant to the ownership of your land

I've heard they're notorious for that

I'm not sure that you understand what he's talking about. Then again, you don't seem to understand what you are talking about, either

Oh but I do

I seem to remember there being a part in the Constitution...

[Doc]

Holy jesus you are one ignorant mother fucker, Doc

Please explain how I am ignorant, and how I am also a mother fucker.

You seem to be mad alot Sir Jake.

Is that a side effect from those steroids?

[Ph33r3d_1]

Why can't his mother and sisters get off their fat (and probaly pregnant) asses and work?

Oh I can assure they do. In fact, they may be in one of the most lucrative professions: forced prostitution. But despite their income, they still can't afford a hut with more than two rooms. Such is the desolation of abject poverty.

Holy jesus you are one ignorant mother fucker, Doc

Simmer down, simmer down. I was the same way once. He'll get some age on him eventually.

Sure is herpity derpity librul up in here

What?

[Doc]

Oh I can assure they do. In fact, they may be in one of the most lucrative professions: forced prostitution. But despite their income, they still can't afford a hut with more than two rooms. Such is the desolation of abject poverty.

Like I said earlier, instead of running away to America, why can't they fix their own country?

[Jake]

Holy jesus you are one ignorant mother fucker, Doc

Please explain how I am ignorant, and how I am also a mother fucker.

You seem to be mad alot Sir Jake.

Is that a side effect from those steroids?

HURRR HURRR YOU HAVE MUSCLES YOU MUST TAKE STEROIDZZZZZZZZ

You're ignorant because you think all illegal immigrants are border hoppin' wetbacks.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Aeterna
The mother fucker part wasn't necessary

[Jake]

Oh I can assure they do. In fact, they may be in one of the most lucrative professions: forced prostitution. But despite their income, they still can't afford a hut with more than two rooms. Such is the desolation of abject poverty.

Like I said earlier, instead of running away to America, why can't they fix their own country?

Because they have no money